October 2010 Archives

Sandra Nix • It is a good concept and a nice unit, however, the ADA compliance issue has become like so many other descriptors used in our industry - they are misused so often they become meaningless. "ADA Compliant", "HIPAA Compliant" and even "Custom" are used because they are seen as a buzz word with little regard to actual meaning. 

Unfortunately there is no recourse - no one patrols what competitors say and so they can and do say anything. The trade association says it isn't their job, and there isn't really any legal regulation, so I see web sites and marketing materials all the time with the full range of an honest misunderstanding all the way to bold face lies. As long as there is no consequence, for some there is no reason to accurately depict their product.

Mike James • We post a web page on compliance ( http://beyondkiosks.com/page.php?title=ADA ) and ask all of our customers to review it. 

Maybe I'm being naive...

Sandra Nix • I wish everyone in our industry were so diligent... it would be good for all of us.

Frank Beurskens • The video Mike refers to features display software from ShoptoCook, Inc, (www.shoptocook.com). I agree with Sandra's comment that ADA Compliance is a very fuzzy issue. While the top of screen is well above 54 inches, navigation and print output are located at the bottom of the display, well within reach of wheelchair bound shoppers, by design.

Bill Lynch • Mike: 


I applaud you for encouraging customers to consider accessibility issues in the design of the kiosk. However, I agree with Sandra and have concerns about claims to be ADA compliant. 

First, It's my understanding the ADA documents are only providing recommended guidelines for self-service kiosks and that you can't be "in compliance" to a yet to be determined specification. I believe you could say you are designing your kiosks to the current ADA recommendations. 

Second, The guidelines address a wide range of disabilities including sight and hearing. The portion of the guideline on your site only addresses physical access to the machine. You will also have to consider additional inputs/access controls (other than touch screen), to comply with all of the recommendations. 

I'm interested in hearing other thoughts, too.

Paul Laracy • To add a little more 'fuzziness' to this discussion, 54" is the max height of the touch screen portion as Frank mentioned in retail and other such environments - but in the transportation world, 48" is the max ADA compliant height....

Mike James • Hi Frank, 

If you take a close look at the picture on the left with the woman standing next to the machine, you'll see that her head is a few inches below the top row of touch buttons. Unless she's 4' 3" tall, there's no way for the those buttons to be at 4' 6". :) 

The highest buttons look to be at 63" - 64", with the top of the screen above Mr.Goodyear's head -- maybe 72" or so.

Frank Beurskens • The same content accessible from the highest button is also available accessing the Keyword Search feature which is below 54 inches. In the majority of cases, kiosk content is also available through the Retailer's website, or through the mobile application, all of which are synchronized. Providing content through multiple channels is another way to reflect and honor, the varying needs of shoppers. (Usage on these large screen interactive displays runs approximately 200% higher than traditional 15 inch and 17 inch units in exactly the same environment making the cost per engagement, far lower!)

Mike James • Hi Bill, 

The ADA is a civil rights law to prohibit discrimination based on disabilities. People regularly sue merchants and other entities who don't follow the ADA guidelines. 

It may never be an issue, but I'd counsel that we all advise our customers about ADA. As we all know, when somebody starts suing, they typically serve papers on everybody involved. :)

Mike James • Hi Frank - 

One neat trick is to add a touchpad and select button below the screen. Have your program recognize when the touchpad is being used, display the cursor, and let the wheelchair-bound customer click anywhere she wants.

Derek Fretheim • Hi guys. Thought I would chime in here. I've written about this issue since Section 508 hit the streets and even before that back in 1997 when I did a kiosk project for Valley Transportation Authority in San Jose. Back then there were no guidelines, only a very strong ADA advocacy group who pretty much sued everyone in the Santa Clara Valley when equal access wasn't addressed. For that project, we were required to have a solution for the hearing impaired and sightless (PC for blind individual).

Paul brings up an important item which is the 48-inch height requirement in the Transportation Sector. Interestingly, this requirement is begining to trickle down to ANY Federally funded self-service initiative. So I imagine as more and more Federal self-service initiatives begin to become deployed the reach access item will become even more fuzzy and debated. Either way, it will take either a law suit or a regulatory agency to begin to enforce poor kiosk design. I think the Coin Star kiosks are ripe for a law suit given the nature of how people use them and today's economy. 

I have adopted the 48-inch height for all my new kiosk designs as a precaution.

Dan Stiel • While no one solution "fits all" a creative way to provide service to customers impacted by certain challenges may be through mobile ordering technology. 

Customers can do business through their mobile devices - from smart phones to even iPads. I'm working with a mobile tech company that is doing just that. Check them out at www.JustEnjoy.com. I'd be very interested in your feedback.

Edward Crowley • Derek / Paul great points and the ADA Accessibility Guidelines (ADAAG) has always been loosely interpreted, often loosely (or wrongly) implemented and very often misrepresented by manufacturers of all type of devices, not just self-service and kiosks. Historically, most of us have recognized and designed to the 54" guideline as the highest point of interface, at a minimum, and considering forward, side reach and obstacles, often much lower. We certainly seem to be moving toward a standard more in-line with Canadian and European guidelines, hence the 48" adoption in the transportation sector. There are many emerging technologies, including new mobile devices, that offer new and creative ways to access information in public places and this may also impact future self-service ADA design as well. Let's keep in mind, that good design, should be good design for all and that includes full accessibility and ease of use.

Craig Keefner • I am wondering now if it makes sense to transcribe this discussion and then I post it out on selfservice.org blog. I can also punch up the KMC/Networld editors and have them include it on main websites there I think. I would hyperlink everybody to their website (and insist on that). send me a note yea or nay if so (craig.keefner@gmail.com or craig@kiosk.com). 

Aside, I think there is a real temptation to offer non-ADA as option. You can see it all the time. And then you end up facing how bad do you want that deal pressure...

Derek Fretheim • Clearly the ADA design issue is blurred and it's incumbent upon us as industry leaders to limit the confusion. So posting the discussion to industry blogs makes perfect sense to me.